Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:13:13 -0400 From: rburton@voicenet.com (Richard Burton) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Turned Mallet John Gunterman's mallet project prompted me to ask some questions about the construction of an old applewood mallet. I have made a detailed drawing of the mallet at: http://www.voicenet.com/~rburton/mallet.gif and there is an actual picture at: http://www.voicenet.com/~rburton/mallet.jpg The mallet was turned in a lathe and it seems that it must have been adjusted in the lathe at least three times to get the resulting shape. Any lathe galoots out there that could tell me the layout of the turning blank and the procedure to get such a shape? This mallet also has a cool locking wedge that you may want to try out if you are planing to make John's mallet. The details are on mallet.gif. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:05:16 -0400 From: Don.McConnell@axom.com (Don McConnell) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet Richard Burton posed the following question concerning an old turned apple wood mallet he has: >The mallet was turned in a lathe and it seems that it must have been >adjusted in the lathe at least three times to get the resulting shape. >Any lathe galoots out there that could tell me the layout of the turning >blank and the procedure to get such a shape? (I have left in the URLs of the drawing and photo so others can follow this) >detailed drawing of the mallet at: >http://www.voicenet.com/~rburton/mallet.gif >and there is an actual picture at: >http://www.voicenet.com/~rburton/mallet.jpg ___________________________________ Richard, While I don't do much lathe work I'll stick my neck out since no one else seems to have responded to this. Unless I am missing something between the drawing and the photo, I believe this was accomplished by two set-ups on the lathe. It appears that each half of the head is essentially a cylinder (or possibly slightly barrel shaped). So each end would have been formed in turn (pun intended). >From the measurements on the drawing it appears that the handle tapers from 7/8" (longitudinally) at the base of the head to 1 1/2" at the top of the head. (OK, the drawing shows 1 1/2" at the top of the handle, but this is for illustrative purposes. You can determine the actual measurement at the top of the head where the handle comes through.) So the taper from the top of the head to the bottom is 5/8" if I can subtract properly. So you locate the drive center 5/16" below the horizontal axis of one end of the blank, and the tail stock center 5/16" above the horizontal axis of the other end of the blank. (The mallet appears to be twice as long as "wide" vertically, so the total offset of 5/8" should give you about 5/16" offset at the middle, or half of the 5/8" taper per end.) Turn the first end, including the gouge mark "laying out" the first half of the handle mortise area. You then reverse the procedure for turning the second end. This gives you the shape of each end as well as the converging gouge marks "laying out" the handle mortise area. Incidentally, I suspect the flat areas derived from the blank itself. In other words, the sides were planed (do they taper toward the handle where one would hold it?) prior to turning so that the side-to-side dimension was less than the top-to-bottom dimension. I admit this is completely conjecture -- but if they are reasonably uniform and symmetrical I would lean toward this as a more likely explanation. Also, a rectangular or trapezoidal blank would have made it easer to keep track of the horizontal and vertical axes of the piece during the turning process. Incidentally, neat mallet! I love "puzzles" like this. Now if I could just figure out the locking wedge drawing. (Of course, I may be kidding myself that I figured out the process to produce the mallet head as well.) 8-) Don McConnell Knox County, Ohio ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:43:37 -0400 From: rburton@voicenet.com (Richard Burton) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet Don; thanks for your reply. >So you locate the drive center 5/16" below the horizontal axis of one end >of the blank, and the tail stock center 5/16" above the horizontal axis of >the other end of the blank. (The mallet appears to be twice as long as >"wide" vertically, so the total offset of 5/8" should give you about 5/16" >offset at the middle, or half of the 5/8" taper per end.) Turn the first >end, including the gouge mark "laying out" the first half of the handle >mortise area. >You then reverse the procedure for turning the second end. This gives you >the shape of each end as well as the converging gouge marks "laying out" >the handle mortise area. See if I got your instructions correct. Look at: http://www.voicenet.com/~rburton/mallet1.gif >Incidentally, I suspect the flat areas derived from the blank itself. Did not think of that. They looked so decorative I figured they must have been added later as a final touch. How are you doing with the locking wedge? Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:52:22 -0400 From: Don.McConnell@axom.com (Don McConnell) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet Fellow galoots: Richard Burton provided another gif to see if he understood my guess concerning the manufacture of his unusual old mallet. Here is the URL in case anyone else wants to follow this: http://www.voicenet.com/~rburton/mallet1.gif First, I want to comment on how useful I find it to have images to look at. People on oldtools do a good job of verbally describing things, but images often help immensely. Guess I'm going to have to learn how to do this. Having said that, I now realize that I had missed one point in looking at your first images of this mallet. Despite your helpful arrows on the original gif, I somehow concluded there were two converging turning gouge marks at the middle of the mallet head. Missing the fact that there were three marks had left me somewhat puzzled as to why you thought three set-ups in the lathe might have been required in forming the mallet head. Now I think you are correct that there were three positionings on the lathe for making this mallet. However, I do not think the first positioning would be at the midpoints as you show in the gif. I believe it would have had both centers at the upper positions (5/16" above center, centers 1 and 3 on the gif). The sole purpose of this position would have been to establish the middle of the three gouge marks. This middle gouge mark would alleviate one of my unwritten concerns about how this turning would be accomplished. It did occur to me as I wrote my first message that it would require extreme care to work each end very precisely to the longitudinal midpoint of the head. Catching the corner of the gouge in the off-end material was a very likely risk, and the results would be catastrophic. Having this middle gouge mark already established would give you a small "safe area" to work into when turning the corresponding ends of the mallet head. The second and third steps (positionings) you show on the gif correspond precisely with my written description. So we're definitely on the same page there! 8-) Unless I have missed some geometric aspect of this, I believe this approach would produce this most interesting and unusual mallet head. In fact, I'm half considering trying it myself to test this hypothesis. I do feel constrained to warn anyone thinking of trying this, however, that this blank would be gyrating in some very wild patterns in this process -- necessitating EXTREME CARE in the placement of tool rests, turning gouges, and fingers and hands!!!!!! Also, slow speeds would be in order. Of course, this should be no problem on your treadle lathe, or on your great wheel lathe . Now if I can just figure out the locking wedge device? Don McConnell Knox County, Ohio ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:28:32 -0400 From: Mac Geek To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Turned Mallet It appears to me to be a modified goose neck dovetail. (quite a common joint used for end joining wood in "eastern" style joinery.) I'm thinkink the wedge itself is madde from a dry (cured) peice of wood and fitted to a green handle. Thus when the handle shrinks and the wedge does not it locks itself in place. John A. Gunterman ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:51:53 -0400 From: Kevin Brennan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet At 07:51 AM 8/23/96 -0400, Don posed: >Now if I can just figure out the locking wedge device? > isn't this achieved by making the taper of the opening for the handle wider at the top? when the head is pushed down on the top end of the handle so that the "key" can be put into it's opening the handle is then "locked" into place when the mallet head is brought back to the top. centrifugal force would insure the mallet head stays locked but the thing can be taken apart later as necessary. pretty cool imho, putting this on the one-of-these-days-i'll-make-one-of-these list kb; how agrees publishing gifs is a great idea and that the center gouge is done first ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:13:54 -0400 From: Don.McConnell@axom.com (Don McConnell) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet Greetings: To return to the subject of how the head on Richard Burton's interesting mallet was turned --- I've got some good news and I've got some bad news. First the bad news. I should know better than to try and do geometry in my head at home without any drawing instruments. Also, one would think that I might think through all of the ramifications of suggesting the first gouge cut would be done on points 5/16" above center. Got to thinking about this at work today, and realized that my suggested center points for turning the respective ends of this mallet head are in the wrong position. Now for the good news. My suggestion concerning the turning points for the first (middle) gouge cut was correct. 5/16" above center. Also, it occurred to me that since the blank was off center, it would be possible to do some initial shaping on the bottom edge of the blank -- kind of swamping it down into the initial gouge cut. As long as you were careful not to take any of the cuts beyond that required to establish the middle gouge cut, you would not be removing material along the "top" of the blank which you want to leave. With respect to the turning points for the ends of the mallet, I had the right principle, but the wrong location. For the end you are shaping, the turning point would be at the middle of the vertical axis, and 5/8" above the middle for the "off" end. Ditto for shaping the other end. Just to ward off further embarassing my self on this subject, I decided to do a test run on this hypothesis. Luckily, found an off cut of hard maple of almost exactly the right size, and tried it out. Success! I didn't do a totally finished product, but roughed it out using a large roughing gouge (gotta find a way to slow that apprentice down, though!). This gave me enough feedback to know that the principle and locations as described above are correct. In fact, the three gouge marks delineating the handle mortise area gave me exactly the values I was looking for based on Richards original gif of this mallet. While my warnings about the gyrations of this off center turning still stand, it proved not to be as daunting as I thought it might be (remember, I'm not really a turner). Fun project! Now I'll have to do it for real when I get a chance. Richard, might I ask that you amend the last gif on this according to this latest information, so we can check to make sure we're on the same page? Thanks for this fun challenge! Don McConnell Knox County, Ohio ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:20:20 -0400 From: John Hunt To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet I have been following this thread, and have looked at the to original images on the web page, but I missed the issue of the locking wedge. What needs to be figured out? I do have another question though. How is the configuration of the locking wedge known? Does the head slide down the handle, revealing the locking wedge? -John- On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Don McConnell wrote: snip... > Now if I can just figure out the locking wedge device? > > Don McConnell > Knox County, Ohio ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:29:55 -0400 From: rburton@voicenet.com (Richard Burton) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet >It appears to me to be a modified goose neck dovetail. > >(quite a common joint used for end joining wood in "eastern" style joinery.) > >I'm thinkink the wedge itself is madde from a dry (cured) peice of wood and >fitted to a green handle. >Thus when the handle shrinks and the wedge does not it locks itself in place. > >John A. Gunterman The handle is hickory and the wedge is oak. Another advantage is that the two "goose neck dovetails" can be compressed together so the handle can be inserted through a smaller hole in the mallet head. This also allows you to make the holding end of the handle larger than the mortice in the head. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:02:26 -0400 From: rburton@voicenet.com (Richard Burton) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Turned Mallet >I have been following this thread, and have looked at the to original >images on the web page, but I missed the issue of the locking wedge. >What needs to be figured out? > >I do have another question though. How is the configuration of the >locking wedge known? Does the head slide down the handle, revealing the >locking wedge? > >-John- > >On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Don McConnell wrote: > >> Now if I can just figure out the locking wedge device? >> >> Don McConnell The head does slide down the handle about 2-1/2in so the wedge can be installed. The handle must be inserted through the bottom of the head because the holding end of the handle is larger than the mortice hole in the head. This is done by compressing the two "fingers" or "goose neck dovetails" together (no wedge installed) so they will fit through the small hole at the bottom of the head. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:14:37 -0400 From: Don McConnell To: Richard Burton Subject: Re: Turned Mallet & Stadelman planes Richard, I checked out the revised gif at the URL you gave, and I obviously need to explain myself more clearly. Let me try it again. As in the drawing, you need three sets of drive centers for each end of the mallet. You may want to renumber or relabel these for reasons I hope will become clear. The lowest set of drive points on each end will be at the mid point of the original blank. The second set of drive points will be 5/16" above the midpoint of the original blank. The third set of drive points will be 5/8" above the midpoint of the original blank. To recapitulate, on each end of the blank, there will be three sets of drive points -- beginning at the midpoint of the blank and each set moving upwards by 5/16" from the one below it. (So you can't simply shift your labeling on the drawing upwards as the middle set of drive points will no longer be at the midpoint of the blank. I hope that's clear?) The first setup will use the middle set of drive points (5/16" above the midpoint) to turn the center of the blank and establish gouge mark B. The second setup will use the lowest drive point (the midpoint) of Side A, and the highest drive point (5/8" above the midpoint) on Side C. Turn Side A and gouge mark A. The third setup will use the lowest drive point (the midpoint) of Side C, and the highest drive point (5/8" above the midpoint) on Side A. Turn Side C and gouge mark C. Once again, the value of gifs and jpgs is abundantly clear. I feel like I'm not holding up my end of the bargain by not having the capacity to do either. I have tried to make my verbal descriptions in this letter as clear as possible. Please feel free to ask if you have any questions. Obviously, I would like to know when you post the re-revised gif -- when we get it right, then maybe we can repost the results to the list. Warm regards, Don -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:15:31 -0400 From: Don McConnell To: Richard Burton Subject: Re: Turned Mallet Richard, Finally logged onto the latest revised gif, and we've finally got it right! Incidentally, thanks for the credit -- certainly wasn't expecting that, but I do appreciate it! Now I guess I want to turn my attention to the locking wedge mechanism to make sure I understand it (thanks for forwarding the responses, incidentally). By the way, do you know anything about the history of this mallet? I guess one of the things I like about some of the "miscellaneous" shop made tools is the sheer inventiveness of many of them. I have a small non-turned mallet which came in a patternmakers box -- the head was formed with a series of tapering facets to approximate a turned head. Unique to me at least, and quite creative. Thanks for letting me participate in this puzzle solving. It was fun! Warm regards, Don